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Re: [wydiocese] Re: Homosexuality

>       I therefore ask the following questions of the gay/lesbian
> communities, and anyone else who feels moved to respond:

I cannot speak for the gay/lesbian community, only as one gay child of

>           1. Do the respondents believe in the stories of creation as
> recorded in the book of Genesis? if not, the rest of the questions are
> of no consequence.

Yes, I believe in them, though not with the literalism that William
Jennings Bryan insisted upon in the Scopes Trial.  We risk destroying the
most vital truth of our sacred stories if we read them as a geology or
biology textbook.

In the sacred stories of Genesis the people of God describe their
understanding of God as revealed to them in their holy pilgrimage.  Some
of the Genesis details the Jews got from the Babylonians while in
captivity there, thousands of years along their journey; that is, they
heard the sacred in stories of foreigners and affirmed them as their own.
As do we in hearing the stories that the Jews have passed along to us

>           2. Did God create Adam gay and Eve lesbian? and if so, who
> were their partners?

Did God create Adam heterosexual and Eve heterosexual?  Both sets of
questions are anachronistic, bringing very recent (and unstable)
categories to bear on a sacred story that does not address them.  It's
rather like asking, Did God create H2O and the laws of thermodynamics?
Yes, but....  God never limits Godself to even the best of our categories
of understanding.  Even Saint Paul, the most discursive of our our writers
in Scripture, said we see but as through a very dirty glass.

It is risky to subject the sacred stories to prurient interests.  The next
step might be to ask what God was thinking as God made each of those parts
that we do not usually talk about in polite society, and then we might ask
whether God created those parts with eyes closed and face averted....  I
suggest that we not even go there.

On the other hand, with the rich certainty that comes only by faith I
believe that yes indeed, God created Adam & Steve!  plus Eve & Margaret,
Adam, Eve, Adrian & Andrew, John Taylor Frary and Eloise Buffington Reid,
Anno & John, Kim-Ming, Austin, Barbara, Bernie, Beryle & Edna, Betty, Bill
& Michael, Bob, Bron & Bruce, Caryl, Catherine, Charles & Cheryl, Clarence
& Clifton, Conrad, David & Joseph, Jim & Jo Ann, Irl & Sharon & Jack, Ana
& Tawanna, Tim & Tom, Kim & Scott, Chris, Mae Del & Clifton, Ed & Patty,
Flo, Joe, Kit, Nan, Ned, Ric, Zou, Wan-kan, Anthony & Evens, Win-win, Eula
& Bubbah, Lula & Erman, Bets, Horace, Annakali & Susan, Ronald, Rasalind,
Bryan & Luc, Susan, Eliana, Lazaro, Libby, T. C. & Ted, Joyce, Marcela &
Marge, Nancy, Linda & Liz, Gordon & Grace, Mike & Mildred, Connie, Hale,
Jane, Eugenie & Eunice, Peter, James, Ernest & Louie, Janet, Geoffrey,
Wilfred, Sergio, Douglas, Ruth Ann, Michael, Richard & Robert, Kathleen &
Kay, Fifi & Fletcher, Marie, Juliette, Regina & Rhoda, Maxine, Monique,
Doris, Louis, Louise, Judith, H. J., Nick & Barnet, Jack & Christine, Jack
& Linda, Mark, H. K., Parker, Earl & Edgar, Paul & Victor, Neil & Ethel,
Neil, Nella & Nicholas, Hillary & Bill, William & Winston, William, Guilio
& Jesus, Thomas, Raymond, Inan & Elizabeth, John & Jon, Gwen, Jean, Joan,
Francis, Ewing & Fernando, Zhang & Wu, Dennis, Frank, Avinash, Saunders,
Cynthia & Beckie, Orris, Marcy, Tilly, Chad, Archie, Derrick, Juan,
Beulah, Cheryle, Huntington, Carlos, Cornelius, Derek, Claudia, Rollie &
Michael, Odoric, Ginette & Sallie, Demitrio & Alex, Glennes, Grant, L. P.
& Andrew, Lavinia, Leopold & Adolph, Edythe & Kathy, Carolyn & Dr. Jay,
Rand, Devon, Dorothy & Dot, Lorraine, Deirdre & Julian, Warren, George,
Gloria, Patrick, Sharon & Shujan, Henry, Russ, Luis & Lynn, Otis & Pamela,
Cassandra, Marshall & Martha Luz, Judson, Justin, Milton, Victor & Wantu,
Shiuanan, Zhouyi, Gervais, Steven, Melvin & Merritt, Lloyd, Luo-Zhang,
Adam & Eve, Lutibelle, Li Min Hua, and everybody else on my prayer list.  
(I hope you joined me in praying for each as you named them.  If not,
please read the list again.)

Indeed God created absolutely everybody!  And what's more, enjoyed doing
so and loves us all, each and every one.  Theologian Norman Pittenger
called God "the great promiscuous lover."

>           3. If God did not so create Adam and Eve, When did he begin
> creating gays and lesbians?


>           4. If we are created gay/lesbian/heterosexual/bi-sexual
> where does free-will enter the equation? or are we Presbyterians
> believing in predestination or along with the Muslims believing in
> Kismet?

If we are created male/female, where does free-will enter the equation?

If we are created red, yellow, brown, black, and white, where does
free-will enter the equation?

The answer to your #4 is the same as the answer to my parallel questions.

I am confused by your emphasis on the Presbyterian or Muslim alternatives:
are you suggesting that the truth about issues of sexual identity is the
exclusive province of a narrow selection of Episcopalians?

While I am happy to be an Episcopalian, I doubt that any faith community,
including my own, has a full corner on the truth, especially about these
mysteries where we all have great difficulty in discerning the narrow
boundaries between the sacred and the profane.

>           5 If, as implied, we are products of our genes and there is
> nothing we can do about it, why should we try to order our lives in
> accordance with ANY moral code, Ten Commandments or other?

We are not the products of our genes.  The most important message in the
Genesis creation story is that we are God's creatures, made in God's
image, and free to choose.  In the old covenant, God set before Israel the
law as the means of salvation.

The new creation story, the one emphasized in Christian scriptures, moves
from the law to grace. We who are in Christ have become a new creation.  
We have a new commandment, not the old law, but the law to love one
another.  In the new covenant, we do not follow commandments to get God to
love us; we follow as a response to the fact that God ALREADY HAS LOVED
US, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  

The God of the universe died for a gay male like me!  Grace is amazing
still! And what is even more marvelous, God died for you too, and for
absolutely everybody!

>           6. If we have no choice in the matter of our conduct, what
> is all the fuss about freedom of choice regarding abortion, etc.?

Who says we have no choice in the matter?  Which matter?  

We have no choice in our gender, our race, or our plumbing, but we have a
great variety of choices in Whom we believe and in how we behave as
male/female, red/yellow.., lbgt/straight children of God.  Please pray
that Ernest and I will live as responsibly as we can as an act of worship
of Christ our Savior.  That is our prayer for you and Eloise as well.
>       Please respond with reference to the questions as numbered
> above. God Bless.
>       Thank you.
>           Fr. John T. Frary (supposedly retired)

Thanks for the prompt to attest again to the marvelous love of God.

Joy to you, Father John.

Member of Executive Council, Founder of Integrity

Louie Crew, 377 S. Harrison St., 12D, E. Orange, NJ 07018 973-395-1068

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